‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’

[bruce03451]

‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’
http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/re...-genus-1429755

The title caught my attention, published in 2011. Back in 2011 we had a thread, Tissue culture of Hellebores. Submitted by gardenbuddie, takechianman. At the time it was very difficult to follow.
http://www.gardenbuddies.com/forums/...-of-Helleborus

True test tube baby’s, from start to finish. ‘NEW’ hellebore, interesting science.

…anyways…hellebore has come a long way!

[bruce03451]

'Attempt of a morphological differentiation ofHelleborus species in the Northwestern Balkans'
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...rn-Balkans.pdf

Interesting document published in 2016. Though it seems to contradict the classification given in ‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’ for the Helleborus section Helleborastrum. See page 31 chapter 2 in ‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’ compared to page 18 in 'Attempt of a morphological differentiation of Helleborus species in the Northwestern Balkans'.
My interest is focused on the Helleborastrum section. ‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’ supports dropping the subspecies and reconize H. bocconei, H. hercegovinus, H. istriacus, and H. occidentalis as species status (pg.35).They go on to say on page 36 that 'Additionally H. croaticus and H. torquatus had been treated as synonyms but were subsequently considered distinct'. They also add H. abruzzicus and H. liguricus. That would make section Helleborastrum a very large section!

[lubuli]

thank you for the links! i am still occupied in reading the first one. i know already parts of it but i have never read the whole work.
yes i remember that thread back then. in the moment we have a discussion again in a german forum about tc plants because the market is overflown with these plants and they are mostly produced in germany. this is absolutely big style business, we are talking about millions of plants as they are operating wordwide. and i hate this kind of business!!!! not the plants, many of them are ending in the garbage. meanwhile a lot of smaller breeders are struggling to sell their plants and make a living. even mike byford thinks loudly about leaving hellebores and working with galanthus instead. makes me sad.
i am at facebook too like many other buddies, together with joseph and ernie o´byrne i am admin in the heavenly hellebores group, have contact to mike and tim murphy too. tim is only growing species for his own pleasure and doesn´t participate in the group. he is working with cyclamen.

[bruce03451]

The German Federal Ministry of Food, Ag and Consumer Protection financed this document. It's purpose 'aimed at interspecific hybrids and to create new hybrids and resistance to H. hellebori'. The discussion goes into the economic benefits.

These new vitro babies have invaded the USA market. Beautiful 1-quart flowering hellebore for $9.99 each. My understanding is they are producing hundreds of thousands per clone. They will dominate the hellebore sales.

Both documents have allot of information, hoping someone with more knowledge would be able to help in the understanding of this information. My interest is not the vitro babies but the genetic information and compatibility of fertilization in the Helleborus section Helleborastrum.

Has anyone tried down loading ‘TC hellebore from interspecific hybridisations’? I always use the read option in fear I will not be able to view the document again!

I have recently visited heavenly hellebores, very busy place! I have asked permission to reply to threads but I await permission from the admin! Though I do like the pace and format of GB and have no plans of leaving home, I certainly will not hesitate to join in heavenly hellebore once I have permission, but the size of heavenly hellebores is a bit overwhelming.

Maybe someone from heavenly hellebores might be able to help us out with these documents?

[lubuli]

are you that bruce with absolutely no information in his profile? i´ve sent you a message. if yes, i will grant you imediately access. in the moment i have so many membership requests to examine that everything takes more time. ok, granted! but please set one of your hellebore photos as profile photo and on your page. don´t expect to much of the group, very busy with everyone showing their hellebore pics. discussions like here are seldom and mostly happen on the private pages between "friends". once you post there or contact me personally i will help you with your first steps there.

no i didn´t download either, i have set bookmarks to be able to read whenever i have a bit of spare time. it´s a work to get a doctors degree and it must be published openly. and the German Federal Ministry of Food, Ag and Consumer Protection has given a scholarship to this lady to finance the laboratory work and her living during the research. things like this are usual.
i think we should discuss this theme when finished reading. i am not against tc but what is happening at the market makes me deeply concerned and reminds me in a certain way of monsanto and nestle.

[bruce03451]

Yes I will need help; I always use caution in a new environment especially on the Internet. Heavenly Hellebores is a very fast moving, many wonderful hellebores and wonderful people.
And yes that environment is not the place for a discussion on this document. It is a very good, well-researched paper. People will choose sides, these same gardeners need to review the document and use what is useful.
I hybridize and collect species hellebore for the love of hellebore. We should understand that we all see different things in the hellebores we love. The diversity in garden hellebore is vast and has a long way to go. The largest problem is protecting species hellebore in their natural environment without alien contamination. In the same breath we have the growing demand for authentic species hellebore.
Our friends that fear TC because of the economic impact need to point out to their customers and the public the diversity and benefits of their product. The future of hellebore does not belong to TC, the future of hellebore belongs to everyone that plucks an anther and tickle a receptive stigma. You have to remember that the diversity and rapid change in our garden hybrids will never interest mass TC. The seed strains cannot offer what these new TC has to offer. Yet the TC hybrids cannot compete with the diversity of our garden hybrids. We have to step up to the plate and locally show gardeners the diversity of hellebores.
…anyways we tend to take ourselves far too serious!

[lubuli]

bruce let´s discuss the FB stuff on FB. i feel odd to do it here. the most important step for you now is to get some some friends. i have already proposed several to you, you should see that somewhere on your page but you must ask them yourselves, klick the button. and on the right side where the names of your friends appear there opens a window to chat, if you klick on a name.

and that tc stuff we dscuss first here but now i am really tired, it´s 4.30 am for me.

[marylou]

@bruce: "The future of hellebore does not belong to TC"
thats right. I feel the same.